Dear CES Letter,

You ask the reader to believe that the Book of Mormon is the product of deception, improvisation, or borrowing. You present this as the only reasonable conclusion.

But how do you explain the volume of evidence that points in the opposite direction?

Not just that the Book of Mormon exists, but that it was produced under conditions that make ordinary authorship increasingly implausible. Not a careful translation requiring education, drafts, and time. Not a collaborative work. Not a stitched-together imitation.

A text dictated rapidly, without notes, without revision, producing internal complexity, ancient literary structure, consistent doctrine, and historical depth that Joseph Smith had no training to construct.

There is so much evidence, across so many independent categories, that disbelief no longer feels neutral. It feels selective.

How do you explain witnesses who never recanted.
How do you explain complexity without preparation.
How do you explain ancient patterns Joseph Smith could not have known.
How do you explain archaeology that keeps narrowing the gap instead of closing it.

At what point does dismissal require more assumptions than belief.

Because taken together, this evidence does not merely suggest that the Book of Mormon could be ancient.

It forces a harder question.

How do you explain the following:

Witnesses Who Never Recanted

Eleven named witnesses testified that they saw and handled the plates.

Several later left the Church.

Several openly opposed Joseph Smith.

They lost property, wealth, farms, and social standing. They endured ridicule, legal trouble, and sustained persecution. If the plates were part of a deliberate fraud, these were the very men with the greatest incentive to admit it.

They did not.

The Whitmers left the Church and never returned. Yet they continued to affirm their testimony for the rest of their lives.

None of the witnesses ever denied what they said they saw.

Not once. Not under pressure. Not for advantage. Not at the end of their lives.

David Whitmer and Martin Harris both reaffirmed the authenticity of the Book of Mormon as their final public declarations.

That is not how conspiracies end.

Witnesses of the Book of Mormon

Book of Mormon Witnesses – FAIR Latter-day Saints

Additional Physical Witnesses

Beyond the Eleven Witnesses, multiple individuals reported direct physical interaction with the plates.

They lifted a heavy object wrapped in cloth.
They felt individual metal leaves.
They heard the sound of metal rings as pages shifted.
They described weight, thickness, and rigidity consistent with a bound metal record.

These accounts were given independently and do not rely on group experience or shared language.

Mary Musselman Whitmer was shown the plates while performing ordinary labor in her home. She described seeing them physically and was told her sacrifice was known. She held no public role and gained nothing from the experience.

Frauds do not create unnecessary witnesses.

Other individuals reported similar physical encounters. They handled the plates through cloth, felt the edges of the leaves, and described the same metallic characteristics.

The conclusion is narrow.

Too many people interacted with a physical object.
In too many independent ways.
With too much consistency.

For documented historical accounts of these physical witnesses, see
Book of Mormon Witnesses

Witnesses Beyond the Eleven

Physical Evidence of the Plates

Dictation Speed of the Book of Mormon

The Book of Mormon was dictated in approximately sixty-five working days.

Joseph Smith had no formal education beyond basic schooling. He was not trained in composition, theology, history, or ancient languages.

He could barely write a coherent letter at the time the Book of Mormon was produced.

There is no evidence of an outline.
No drafts.
No revisions.
No reference materials.

He dictated for hours at a time.

When interrupted, he resumed mid sentence without review.

The text maintains consistent narrative flow, chronology, geography, doctrine, and character development across hundreds of pages.

Research driven authorship requires planning, notes, comparison, and revision. None are present.

Plagiarism requires access, selection, adaptation, and integration. The pace does not allow it.

Improvised storytelling collapses under scale. This text does not.

The production constraints leave one narrow explanation.

Joseph Smith was not composing.

He was reading dictated text as it was revealed.

Anything else requires assumptions that exceed the evidence.

How Long Did It Take to Translate the Book of Mormon?

The Translation Process


Narrative Interlock and Complexity

The Book of Mormon is not episodic. It is structurally integrated.

Names introduced early reappear hundreds of pages later without contradiction.
Genealogies align across generations.
Chronology advances without reset.
Geography remains internally consistent.

Minor characters disappear for long stretches and return exactly where the narrative requires them.

Wars escalate, pause, and resume with logistical continuity.
Political systems evolve.
Doctrinal understanding develops gradually rather than appearing fully formed.

What makes this even more difficult to explain is the order of production.

The opening portion of the Book of Mormon was dictated last.

After completing the narrative from Mosiah to Moroni, Joseph Smith returned and dictated what is now the beginning of the book, without revising the existing text.

That means the introduction of peoples, covenants, themes, and doctrinal foundations had to align perfectly with a narrative already completed.

This reverses the normal direction of composition.

It eliminates the possibility of forward planning.
It removes the ability to seed later developments.
It requires backward consistency under dictation constraints.

These features do not emerge from oral improvisation.
They do not survive rapid composition without reference.

The text behaves like a finished record being read in segments, not a story being assembled.

Complex systems fail when built out of order.

This one does not.

The structure holds.

Complexity and Consistency in the Book of Mormon

Book of Mormon Evidence Overview


Hebraic Literary Structures

The Book of Mormon contains extended Hebraic literary forms.

Not isolated phrases.
Not accidental symmetry.

Large-scale chiasmus spans paragraphs and chapters, with precise inversion and central turning points. These structures require forethought. They do not emerge unconsciously in extended composition.

The text also preserves distinctly ancient narrative markers.

One of the most obvious is the repeated phrase “and it came to pass.”

In English, this reads as filler. In Hebrew narrative, it functions as a single structural marker, signaling sequence and continuity. It is not decorative language. It is a textual device.

Its frequency in the Book of Mormon mirrors ancient records, not modern prose.

This detail matters because the Book of Mormon was not a short pamphlet. It was the longest published book of its time. Printing costs were high. Paper was expensive. There was no incentive to inflate length with unnecessary words.

That incentive worked in the opposite direction.

When Joseph Smith later produced the Doctrine and Covenants, revelations were consolidated, edited, and compressed to reduce printing cost and page count.

That did not happen with the Book of Mormon.

The language was not streamlined.
Repetitions were not removed.
Ancient narrative markers were preserved.

That behavior makes sense only if the text was being translated rather than composed.

Biblical imitation can explain archaic vocabulary.

It cannot explain the preservation of ancient structural devices that increase length, cost money to print, and serve no modern stylistic purpose.

The patterns are not cosmetic.

They are structural.

And they point to an underlying record that predates modern composition.

Chiasmus in the Book of Mormon

Ancient Literary Forms in the Book of Mormon


Ancient Covenant and Legal Forms

The Book of Mormon follows ancient Near Eastern covenant and legal patterns.

These include formal blessings and curses, covenant renewal speeches, witness lists, and legal accusations embedded within prophecy. These forms are not theological decoration. They are legal structures.

They govern how texts are organized, how authority is asserted, and how accountability is framed.

These patterns were unknown in Joseph Smith’s world. They were not taught in frontier America. They were not recognized in biblical scholarship until long after the Book of Mormon was published.

The record also preserves ancient practices in how it physically presents itself.

The Book of Mormon title page is not a modern preface. It identifies itself as a summary written by the final record keeper. This is not literary convention. It is a legal colophon.

Significantly, the title page comes from the last leaf of the record, not the first.

That is how ancient records were concluded.

This detail is precise. It is obscure. It serves no persuasive purpose for a 19th-century audience. And it mirrors ancient record keeping practices Joseph Smith had no access to.

Modern authors place introductions at the beginning.

Ancient scribes summarized at the end.

The Book of Mormon does the latter.

These features do not appear because someone was trying to sound biblical.

They appear because the text is behaving like an ancient legal and covenant record being translated, not a modern book being composed.

The form constrains the explanation.

The structure predates the translation.

Ancient Legal Forms in the Book of Mormon

Why Did Nephi Write Like an Ancient Prophet?


Doctrines Out of Step With 1820s Christianity

The Book of Mormon introduces doctrines that did not align with mainstream Christianity in the 1820s.

These include a structured premortal existence, a fall framed as necessary rather than catastrophic, covenant theology tied to lineage and land, and a sustained Christology presented centuries before Christ within a Hebraic prophetic framework rather than creedal language.

These ideas were not popular. They were not safe. They were not persuasive.

If Joseph Smith were attempting fraud, the rational strategy would have been conformity. He would have appealed to doctrines people already accepted, reinforced familiar creeds, and reduced friction. That is how movements gain traction.

The Book of Mormon does the opposite.

It presents teachings that many readers initially rejected because they did not fit inherited belief. Conversion required rethinking, not affirmation.

More importantly, these doctrines appear early. They are embedded in narrative history long before Joseph Smith’s later theological development.

What makes this more difficult to dismiss is what came later.

In subsequent years, Joseph Smith produced translations and revelations touching on ancient themes that were unknown or disputed in his time. Decades later, discoveries such as the Dead Sea Scrolls and other ancient texts confirmed the existence of covenantal patterns, temple practices, cosmology, and narrative traditions strikingly similar to those Joseph had already revealed.

These were not Christian medieval inventions. They were ancient.

Joseph Smith did not have access to these sources. They were not available to scholars. They were buried in caves and lost languages.

This leaves a narrow set of explanations.

Either Joseph Smith somehow anticipated ancient religious frameworks that modern scholarship would only uncover much later, or those ancient sources are themselves misdated and borrowing from a 19th-century frontier prophet.

One of those explanations strains credibility.

The other forces the question the CES Letter never asks.

How did Joseph Smith know to restore patterns that history had not yet recovered?

Premortal Life in the Book of Mormon

Unique Book of Mormon Doctrines


Archaeology and Limited Geography

The Book of Mormon does not describe a hemispheric civilization.

It describes small founding groups.
Limited population centers.
Regional travel measured in days, not continents.
Assimilation into much larger existing societies.

That model matters because it sets realistic archaeological expectations.

Large, dominant civilizations leave obvious signatures.
Small, absorbed populations do not.

Criticism often assumes claims the text never makes, then declares failure when those assumptions are not met.

The geography described in the Book of Mormon is internally consistent.
Directions align.
Distances repeat.
Borders constrain movement.

The text also describes travel as “up” and “down” according to elevation, not by compass direction.

That was not standard language in Joseph Smith’s time. Nineteenth-century Americans navigated by cardinal directions. Ancient peoples traveling by terrain, rivers, and elevation described movement vertically.

The Book of Mormon does the latter.

That detail is consistent, unnecessary for persuasion, and difficult to explain as coincidence.

The physical world described also reflects realistic ancient geology.

Earthquakes.
Volcanic activity.
Shifting terrain.
Landslides.
Urban destruction tied to natural forces.

These are practical descriptions of living in an active geological region, not speculative mythmaking.

The archaeological objection itself rests on another fragile assumption.

We do not know exactly where Book of Mormon events occurred.

Criticizing the absence of evidence while admitting uncertainty of location is methodologically weak. Archaeology is location-dependent. Evidence is only found where one is looking.

Searching the wrong region guarantees failure.

That failure says nothing about the text.

This matters even more in historical context.

In Joseph Smith’s day, experts widely believed the Americas had no ancient cities or advanced civilizations. Indigenous peoples were assumed to be wandering tribes without large-scale urban development.

That assumption was wrong.

Modern archaeology has confirmed the existence of major civilizations, complex societies, and large cities across both North and South America. Entire cultures once thought mythical are now documented.

The direction of discovery matters.

The more archaeology advances, the more the ancient American world begins to resemble the kind of setting the Book of Mormon described from the beginning.

That is not how false narratives usually age.

They shrink as knowledge increases.

This one has been moving in the opposite direction.

Book of Mormon Geography Evidence

Limited Geography Overview


Ancient Cities and Earthworks

The Book of Mormon describes cities, fortifications, roads, and defensive earthworks built of earth and timber.

In Joseph Smith’s day, this was not an abstract idea.

Across the eastern United States, thousands of ancient mounds, embankments, and earthworks were visible. They were so widespread that their existence was common knowledge. Early Americans openly believed they were the remains of ancient peoples.

This was not fringe speculation. It was accepted fact.

What was not valued was preservation.

Farmers leveled mounds to plant crops. Earthworks were dismantled for roads, homes, and fences. Ancient sites were destroyed not because they were unknown, but because they were inconvenient.

There was no antiquities protection. There was no archaeological method. Progress mattered more than history.

As a result, much physical evidence was erased before it could be studied.

What remains still matters.

Archaeology now confirms that ancient American civilizations built large cities, complex road systems, defensive earthworks, and fortified settlements. These societies existed long before European contact and at scales once dismissed as impossible.

That trajectory matters.

In the early 1800s, scholars underestimated ancient America.
The Book of Mormon did not.

It assumed cities.
It assumed fortifications.
It assumed organized societies capable of large construction projects.

Modern archaeology has steadily moved toward that world, not away from it.

That does not identify specific Book of Mormon cities.

But it removes the objection that such cities could not have existed.

And removing impossibility is exactly where historical pressure begins.

Ancient American Civilizations

Mormons and Mounds


Metallurgy and Crops

The Book of Mormon describes the use of metals, tools, and weapons, as well as cultivated crops.

In Joseph Smith’s day, it was widely believed that ancient Americans lacked advanced metallurgy. The idea that pre-Columbian societies worked metals beyond simple ornamentation was commonly dismissed.

Joseph Smith had no known training in metallurgy.
No education in metalworking.
No exposure to ancient alloys or manufacturing processes.

Yet the Book of Mormon does not describe modern industrial steel. It describes functional metals used for tools and weapons in a pre-industrial context.

Modern archaeology now confirms that ancient American societies worked metals, including hardened copper alloys and other weapon-grade materials. The simplistic claim that metallurgy did not exist in the Americas has quietly disappeared.

The same pattern appears with crops.

The Book of Mormon references cultivated plants that were once labeled anachronistic. Over time, several of these objections have been removed as archaeological evidence has accumulated.

This pattern matters.

The text did not change.
The assumptions did.

Joseph Smith did not benefit from this shift. He could not anticipate it. He could not shape the record to match discoveries that would not occur for generations.

Fraud relies on what is already accepted.

The Book of Mormon repeatedly describes a world that scholarship was not prepared to recognize.

And each time that world becomes more plausible, the burden shifts away from the text and onto the explanation for how it anticipated it.

Archaeology, DNA, and Anachronisms

Barley in Ancient America


DNA and Population Bottlenecks

The Book of Mormon never claims that all Native Americans descend from Israelites.

That assumption comes from critics, not the text. We don’t even know what ethnicity Ishmael and his family were.

The record describes small founding groups entering a land already populated, followed by assimilation, intermarriage, war, migration, and catastrophic population loss.

The Nephite population was wiped out off the face of the earth.

The Jaredite Population was completely destroyed.

How do annihilated populations leave a leave dominant DNA signatures thousands of years later?

Assimilated populations lose identifiable markers.
Population bottlenecks erase genetic signals.

Modern population genetics openly recognizes these limits.

Expecting to identify Middle Eastern DNA thousands of years later, after repeated demographic collapse and absorption into much larger populations, is not science. It is assumption.

This makes the standard DNA objection methodologically weak.

DNA can identify large, isolated founding populations.
It cannot reliably detect minor ancient lineages absorbed into complex, multi-source populations.

That alone removes DNA as a disproof.

But the picture becomes more complicated.

There IS DNA Evidence Linking Native Americans to Jews

There is documented genetic and cultural evidence linking some Native American populations with ancient Near Eastern and Jewish markers. These connections are not universal and not simplistic, but they exist and are acknowledged in serious research.

See
Native Americans and the Jews

These findings do not prove the Book of Mormon.

They do something narrower and more important.

They demonstrate that the Americas were populated by multiple sources, not a single migratory event, and that genetic history is more complex than early critics assumed.

The Book of Mormon predicted complexity.

The DNA argument assumed simplicity.

As genetics has advanced, the text has not been contradicted.

The assumptions have.

And that reversal matters.

DNA and the Book of Mormon

FAIR Response on DNA


Catastrophic Destruction at the Time of Christ

The Book of Mormon describes a narrow window of widespread destruction at the time of Jesus’s death.

Cities collapsing.
Cities burning.
Cities being buried.
Land shifting.
Pure Darkness from volcanic Ash.
Earthquakes altering terrain.
Entire regions rendered uninhabitable.

This is not symbolic language. It is a catastrophe narrative tied to a specific historical moment and attributed primarily to natural forces rather than warfare.

For much of the nineteenth and early twentieth centuries, this description was dismissed as exaggerated. Ancient America was assumed to be stable, undeveloped, and geologically quiet.

Modern archaeology and geology no longer support that view.

One clear example is Cuicuilco, a major Preclassic city in the Valley of Mexico. Archaeological evidence shows the city was suddenly buried by lava from a volcano eruption, permanently entombing structures and forcing mass abandonment. The eruption is dated broadly to the first and second centuries AD, placing it within the same general timeframe described in the Book of Mormon.
Cuicuilco – World History Encyclopedia

A second example comes from Ilopango volcano in present-day El Salvador. The massive Tierra Blanca Joven eruption blanketed settlements with ash, destroyed farmland, and caused widespread regional abandonment. Archaeological layers show abrupt collapse rather than gradual decline, with long-term population displacement across southern Mesoamerica.
The Tierra Blanca Joven Eruption and Its Impact

A third category of evidence involves submerged ancient settlements. Archaeologists have identified structural remains beneath bodies of water in volcanic regions such as Lake Atitlán in Guatemala, including walls and foundations now underwater. These are associated with tectonic or volcanic events capable of rapid landscape change, consistent with cities being “sunk” or covered rather than slowly abandoned.
Underwater Ruins of Lake Atitlán

Archaeology documents patterns of destruction, burial, abandonment, and rebuilding within defined ranges, precisely when the Book of Mormon describes them.

When the Book of Mormon was published, this understanding did not exist. Describing widespread natural catastrophe affecting ancient American cities was not a safe assumption.

Over time, the objection has shifted from claiming impossibility to debating correlation.

Evidence for the Great Destruction

What Caused the Great Destruction in 3 Nephi?


Cultural Resets After Catastrophe

The Book of Mormon describes a major change in culture and customs after the destruction that happened at the time of Christ’s death.

Ancient native American cultures also support this narrative.

One well-documented example is the destruction of Cuicuilco, a major Preclassic city in the Valley of Mexico. Cuicuilco flourished from roughly 500 BC to the early centuries AD. Archaeological evidence shows the city was suddenly buried by lava from the Xitle volcanic eruption, rendering large areas permanently uninhabitable.

The eruption is dated broadly to the first and second centuries AD, placing it within the same general timeframe described in the Book of Mormon destruction narrative. Structures were not abandoned gradually. They were entombed.

Following the destruction, population centers shifted. Political and religious authority collapsed locally. Survivors migrated, and new centers of power emerged elsewhere in the region, including the rapid rise of Teotihuacan.

Archaeologists treat this as a clear case of catastrophic destruction followed by regional reorganization.

For background and archaeological discussion, see
Cuicuilco – World History Encyclopedia

.As evidence has accumulated, the Book of Mormon’s destruction narrative has not been ruled out by the physical record. It has been constrained into the same category archaeology now recognizes: real cities, real catastrophes, real consequences.

That leaves a narrower question than critics started with.

Why does a nineteenth-century text describe ancient American destruction in a way that aligns with patterns archaeology would only later document?
Ancient American Catastrophes

Aftermath of the Destruction


Indigenous Traditions of a Visiting God

The Book of Mormon records that Jesus Christ appeared to the people of the Americas after His resurrection.

That claim is extraordinary. It also created an obvious point of falsification.

Yet across the Americas, Indigenous traditions preserve accounts of a divine visitor who arrived after a time of destruction, taught peace and moral law, rejected violence, and then departed with a promise to return.

These traditions are not identical. They do not need to be. What matters is the recurring pattern.

One of the most well-documented examples comes from Mesoamerica in the figure of Quetzalcoatl among the Aztecs and Kukulkan among the Maya. Early records describe him as a teacher and lawgiver who opposed human sacrifice, emphasized moral reform, arrived from the east, and departed peacefully with a promise to return. Unlike warrior deities, he is remembered for instruction, restraint, and covenantal order.
Quetzalcoatl and the Visiting God Tradition

A second example comes from the Andean world in the figure of Viracocha. In Inca and pre-Inca traditions, Viracocha is described as a creator and restorer who walked among the people, taught moral law, healed divisions, and departed across the sea. He is consistently associated with light and renewal rather than conquest. These traditions were recorded independently across multiple regions of South America.
Viracocha and Ancient Andean Traditions

A third example comes from North America, particularly among several tribes who preserved traditions of a Great Spirit appearing in human form to teach peace and moral living after a period of chaos. Among the Hopi, Algonquian, and other groups, accounts describe a divine messenger who instructed the people, condemned violence, and promised to return. These traditions emphasize ethical transformation rather than mythic warfare.
Indigenous Traditions of a Visiting God

These accounts differ in language and imagery, as oral traditions always do across cultures and centuries.

What remains consistent is function.

A divine visitor.
Appearing after destruction.
Teaching peace, morality, and law.
Rejecting violence.
Departing with a promise to return.

In Joseph Smith’s time, Indigenous religions were poorly understood and routinely dismissed as primitive myth. There was no scholarly consensus recognizing shared civilizing-deity traditions across the Americas.

The Book of Mormon placed Christ into that landscape anyway.

That was not a safe narrative choice.

These traditions do not prove the Book of Mormon true.

They do something narrower.

They show that the idea of a post-resurrection divine visitor to the Americas did not emerge in a vacuum.

It already existed in memory.

And memory, especially when it persists across cultures and centuries, deserves explanation rather than dismissal.

Ancient American White God Traditions

Christ in the Americas


Christ-Centered Transformational Fruit

For two centuries, the Book of Mormon has led readers to repentance, covenant, and commitment to Jesus Christ.

If Joseph Smith were a fraud deliberately deceiving people, the long-term fruit of that deception should be visible.

Frauds produce apathy.
They decay into indifference.
They generate short-term enthusiasm, not sustained devotion.

The Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints shows the opposite pattern.

According to large-scale sociological data, Latter-day Saints are the most religiously devoted group in the United States by virtually every measurable standard.

They are the most likely to attend weekly worship services.
They are the most likely to pray daily.
They are the most likely to study scripture regularly.
They are the most likely to express certainty in belief in God.
They are among the most likely to volunteer, serve others, and donate to charity.

They also consistently rank as one of the happiest religious groups in America.

These are not self-reported anecdotes. They are comparative outcomes measured across religious traditions.

See Pew Research Center – Religious Landscape Study

This pattern has persisted across generations.

It has survived leadership change.
It has survived criticism.
It has survived scandal.
It has survived modern secularization.

Movements built on deception do not produce disciplined, Christ-centered lives at scale for nearly two centuries.

They fracture.
They hollow out.
They collapse into minimal commitment.

The Book of Mormon consistently directs readers to repentance, covenant, moral accountability, and devotion to Jesus Christ. The lived behavior of those who take it seriously reflects exactly that.

This does not prove divine origin.

It does raise a hard question.

Why would a fraudulent text produce the most committed, most disciplined, and most consistently religious community in the country?

Fruit does not determine truth by itself.

But fruit does constrain explanations.

And the fruit of the movement Joseph Smith helped form looks nothing like the outcome of long-term deception.

Come Back Podcast

Nothing Wavering


No Coherent Fraud Model

Every critical explanation for the Book of Mormon attempts to solve one problem while creating several more.

Oral improvisation fails under scale.
The text is too long, too structured, and too internally consistent to survive real-time invention.

Plagiarism fails under production constraints.
There was no time for research, comparison, or integration. No notes. No drafts. No access to the alleged sources during dictation.

Collaboration fails under secrecy.
Too many people were involved. Too many witnesses interacted with physical objects. No whistleblowers ever emerged despite violence, persecution, loss of life and property.

Automatic writing fails under coherence.
It does not produce long-range narrative planning, consistent geography, or integrated theology.

Deliberate fraud fails under cost.
Witnesses lost wealth and reputation. Converts endured persecution. The movement demanded sacrifice, not compliance.

Each theory explains a fragment.

None explains the whole.

To reject the Book of Mormon, one must accept a chain of assumptions more complex than the claim being rejected. These claims are without substance, historical evidence and require far more faith than believing that the Book of Mormon came from God. That chain must account for speed, structure, witnesses, ancient patterns, archaeology, doctrine, and long-term fruit.

No existing fraud model does.

Not even close.

The question is no longer whether critics can propose a theory.

It is why every theory collapses when forced to explain everything at once.

At some point, the simplest explanation stops being fraud.

And starts being avoidance.

Alternative Authorship Theories

Authorship and Naturalistic Explanations


The Question That Remains

None of this forces belief.

It forces a reckoning.

Why does a book produced under extreme constraints describe a world archaeology and scholarship were not prepared to acknowledge, but have spent two centuries slowly uncovering?

The CES Letter never allows the reader to feel that weight.

It is just so hard to have faith in the CES Letter’s explanation of the Book of Mormon after seeing that there is just so much evidence.